tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post1556368675037233523..comments2023-11-23T04:26:01.790-08:00Comments on Gone & Forgotten: Crisis On Infinite Earths in the Front, Party in the Back!Calamity Jonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01800364546694770009noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-40661495695014735302012-02-12T19:54:41.197-08:002012-02-12T19:54:41.197-08:00Aw, I wanted to see Jon's version of Youngbloo...Aw, I wanted to see Jon's version of Youngblood.Wooly Ruperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172367982682836576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-74687384363563976252011-10-25T01:26:41.711-07:002011-10-25T01:26:41.711-07:00You know, this is where I go when I get depressed ...You know, this is where I go when I get depressed about the ever-more-desperate reboots or recons or reentries that comic books do in a desperate attempt to attract a few new listeners or a few more fanboys to lay down some cash. You get me laughing about all of the absurdities of it all and for that, much thanks.Longenbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05779548625888299741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-77896134135172884482011-07-20T00:16:24.582-07:002011-07-20T00:16:24.582-07:00I actually liked the Privateer outfit BECAUSE it w...I actually liked the Privateer outfit BECAUSE it was ridiculous. And because the only story I ever actually saw it in was an issue of Suicide Squad where he beat Rick Flag black and blue in a classic "taking him back to school" moment.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15438253684711321317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-83658298724114389212011-07-09T01:21:31.095-07:002011-07-09T01:21:31.095-07:00Remember when ex-Manhunter Mark Shaw (briefly) dre...Remember when ex-Manhunter Mark Shaw (briefly) dressed up as a buccaneer with an eyepatch? Rejected ideas on his new-costume list must have included "17th Century Formal Gown," "Fresh Hot Tar on Back, Groin and Feet," and "Plastic Bag over Head--No Holes!"BillyWitchDoctorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14311279565432013472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-12894901275189210142011-07-04T11:06:38.148-07:002011-07-04T11:06:38.148-07:00Oh, fa gosh sakes, Calamity, I don't wanna hol...Oh, fa gosh sakes, Calamity, I don't wanna hold you to it! I just wanted you to be amazed by the fact that somebody else remembers. Tell you what: I once had a letter published in Cerebus in which I suggested giving Elrod a Danish accent in the event of a Swedish translation of the book. Tell me my name (it's not Rumpelstiltskin) and I will free you of your bondage!Permanushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14934268888101737284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-29938333035311268712011-07-02T11:08:55.412-07:002011-07-02T11:08:55.412-07:00I think the point is that we're all agreeing t...I think the point is that we're all agreeing that "Facade" is a weak story, but it's irrelevant to the point being made. <br /><br />I guess the problem for me is tied into my issues with shared-universe superhero comics. I got into comics because of Sandman, among others, and only started to appreciate the mainstream DC and Marvel stuff later, so to me, the question of whether Gaiman is consistent in servicing continuity or whatever is not a big deal. Whereas I can see how someone who loved the DC Universe could be upset over the grittification of a character, or Gaiman trying to position his version of Death as more important than other versions. But it kind of seems to me that this is where the idea of trying to tell a personal story starts to conflict with shared-continuity stories; I think most writers have a right to be possessive of their characters, which is something that's hard to do when they're owned by a massive corporation, so a little grumbling is probably inevitable. (Though Gaiman didn't seem all that upset via the quotes in Matthew's link.) Anyway, I guess this is what Vertigo was created for.Pranksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00676528953675160889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-49727839569282944202011-07-01T08:13:59.392-07:002011-07-01T08:13:59.392-07:00*ding ding ding* To where shall I send your copy o...*ding ding ding* To where shall I send your copy of Youngblood #1?Calamity Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800364546694770009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-23613528709515330032011-07-01T06:11:29.817-07:002011-07-01T06:11:29.817-07:00The Superman reference - was that Dave Sim in one ...The Superman reference - was that Dave Sim in one of his Notes from the President or whatever they were called?Permanushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14934268888101737284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-28488460537398710332011-06-30T16:35:47.968-07:002011-06-30T16:35:47.968-07:00I enjoy a lively comics debate and such, but I am ...I enjoy a lively comics debate and such, but I am really starting to get confused as to why the folks who are taking up the opposing position on the Element Girl story are also going out of their way to mention that it was a lousy story. GUYS. I WAS SAYING IT WAS A LOUSY STORY.<br /><br />Your Humble EditorCalamity Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800364546694770009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-68696303759165023632011-06-30T16:32:03.743-07:002011-06-30T16:32:03.743-07:00Gaiman has repeatedly talked about Death and the o...Gaiman has repeatedly talked about Death and the other Endless as interchangeable concepts - influenced by their surroundings as much as they influence them. It's basically how Starlin in Infinity Gauntlet or Krueger in Earth X envisioned Death(and much of the other gods, although both weren't as consequent - I mean, Master Hate, Mistress Love? Those are not good character designs, even for space gods! - or even more so, with the "everyone can be death"-approach). <br /><br />I get that you think Gaiman treated Continuity like crap, and no argument there, but the point is, of all the authors that killed of people in the mainstream comic universe I only remember a few, and nearly none of them stayed dead. Gaiman's stories stand apart as something meaningful, all of them(although Element Girl really was a low point in comparison to the rest of his material). And even if you don't like the early material(like the whole "Doctor Dee"-Horror-stuff, a really good ripoff of his friend Moore), Sandman 50 should have easily made it all worth it.Fire2khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17276144986750736203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-18692838364165345952011-06-30T09:01:34.459-07:002011-06-30T09:01:34.459-07:00Perhaps some of the disconnect here is because we&...Perhaps some of the disconnect here is because we're talking about writing "Gaiman's Death" rather than "The character Death", and while Gaiman had, in his mind, a very clear if indulgent vision of the character (which I'd still argue he wasn't sharing all that well with others, but I'll let that argument slide), he was writing her in what was at the time a shared universe and therefore he's got to realize someone else is going to have a different take.<br /><br />That is, after all, a practice he benefited from immensely in Sandman, and he was happy to repurpose and reinterpret everything from Infinity Inc's Hector and Lyta Hall, the Golden Age and Silver Age Sandmen, the JLA's enemy Doctor Destiny, Simon and Grandetti's Prez to the full complement of DC's horror hosts, Wein/Moore's Matthew Cable and - natch - Haney's Element Girl. <br /><br />In all of these cases, he envisioned the characters in a manner which suited his story, whether or not it fit with the character as previously established by other writers, so perhaps the case of whether other writers were "getting" what he was saying - whether he was sufficiently explicit with the character or no - is irrelevant, considering the substance of his own stories.<br /><br />(Besides all that, as conveniently categorized as it is, I don't know that Bates was wrong; did Death ever claim anyone, in Gaiman's stories, who wasn't at least germane about their inevitable passing, if not ecstatic about it? I don't recall her ever escorting away anyone having a screaming red hissy fit about dying...)<br /><br />Anyway, at the very least, can we all agree that the worst Sandman story is the one where he gets into an epic rap battle with a demon to win back his magic hat? Because that was ... that was just awful.Calamity Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800364546694770009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-69345957014510841352011-06-30T07:51:07.978-07:002011-06-30T07:51:07.978-07:00Here's the whole story: http://goodcomics.comi...Here's the whole story: http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2011/02/12/comic-book-legends-revealed-300-part-2/Matthew Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04905727799828366356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-33979429236045902312011-06-30T07:45:59.141-07:002011-06-30T07:45:59.141-07:00IIRC, the story in question was one in Captain Ato...IIRC, the story in question was one in Captain Atom in which Gaiman's Death was represented as just one aspect of death along with (again IIRC) the Black Racer and Nekron. Basically, Cary Bates was trying to do the Mark Gruenwald thing of fitting all of these contradictory stories together but Gaiman basically said nope, my Death is the real one.Matthew Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04905727799828366356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-11681103139265588842011-06-29T16:39:24.231-07:002011-06-29T16:39:24.231-07:00I apologize if I seem condescending. I didn't ...I apologize if I seem condescending. I didn't mean to suggest that's what you were saying, merely that it doesn't seem that hard, to me, to write Gaiman's Death--but I can easily see that being the kind of thing that superhero hacks could make of her. (Remember the whole "Sleepwalker is Sandman done right" fiasco?) <br /><br />So again, it would probably clarify things if you could tell me exactly what non-Gaiman stories are out there that misused her.Pranksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00676528953675160889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-89250379961326999192011-06-29T14:43:13.119-07:002011-06-29T14:43:13.119-07:00"I don't think you have to be a literary ..."I don't think you have to be a literary genius to see that a story where Delirium is murdered in an alleyway and Death adopts a new costume to hunt down her killers would be desperately missing the point of the character."<br /><br />It's hard to have a real conversation about this when you choose to frame my argument as though I have a persistent head injury.<br /><br />-Your Humble EditorCalamity Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800364546694770009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-13001635356013697932011-06-29T14:40:58.564-07:002011-06-29T14:40:58.564-07:00I disagree; I think it was pretty clear that she s...I disagree; I think it was pretty clear that she served exactly the same function as the classic Grim Reaper (she comes to get you after you die), except that, this being the DC Universe, she was occasionally too ditzy or too softhearted to do the job properly. There were aspects of the character that were left deliberately ambiguous--we never really saw her realm, alone of the Endless, I think--but I'd argue that's kind of necessary when you're dealing with the embodiment of The Ultimate Mystery. Obviously, ambiguity and superhero comic book writers don't always go together too well, so it's not surprising to me that she wasn't always well handled. <br /><br />What really shouldn't have been a problem was being able to write dialogue for her, or shape her basic behaviour based on her personality as indicated, which came across pretty clearly in Sandman. Likewise, I don't see why "the kind of things she can do" need to be any more defined than they were--it's fairly clear that Death is meant to be a supporting character only, and a pretty passive one at that (even in her own miniseries, she's not really the protagonist), so figuring out what her Kryptonite seems mostly to miss the point. Yes, there are plot points that weren't defined (can Death be trapped or forced to serve a powerful being? It's hinted that she can, but not explicated) but these don't seem like the kind of thing that would have bothered Sandman fans. All you really have to keep in mind is that she's the personification of Death, and the kinds of stories you can tell with her seem to flow pretty naturally. I don't think you have to be a literary genius to see that a story where Delirium is murdered in an alleyway and Death adopts a new costume to hunt down her killers would be <i>desperately</i> missing the point of the character. If that's the kind of thing that was going on, I could hardly blame Gaiman for doing the occasional facepalm. (Maybe this would be the time to ask, exactly what were these stories that Gaiman was objecting to?) <br /><br />None of this is to argue that telling a "dark and serious" story about the death of Metamorpho's sidekick isn't misjudged, of course. Though at the time I first read it, I had no idea who Metamorpho was and thought it was a decent story.Pranksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00676528953675160889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-76207153334445460912011-06-29T13:50:02.069-07:002011-06-29T13:50:02.069-07:00"She's not the kind of character where &q..."She's not the kind of character where "power limits" matter. She's frikkin' DEATH."<br /><br />Actually, I have to argue that when you have a character who is the embodiment of a mortal reality (and therefore _kind of an important character_ in the scheme of things), it's pretty important to define what relationship she has to that role. <br /><br />When I said "powers" ("and authority", by the way) I mean that in the bureaucratic sense. So she is the "embodiment" of death, she has certain responsibilities and abilities related to that state of being. What are they? After eighty-plus issues of Sandman and spinoffs, I don't think Gaiman answered that question for any of the Endless characters well enough for another writer to have a clear idea of where to go with it ... If other writers didn't know what to do with the character, it's just as likely that Gaiman's tendency to play coy with the character fostered that situation.<br /><br />-Your Humble EditorCalamity Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800364546694770009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-35831317409541696542011-06-29T13:38:34.868-07:002011-06-29T13:38:34.868-07:00My God, they turned Orion into a space rabbit?
Th...My God, they turned Orion into a space rabbit?<br /><br />The Element Woman story is one of the weakest issues of Sandman, but c'mon. I'm pretty sure Gaiman wasn't sitting there going "They have Death benching 50 tons, when it clearly says in her Who's Who in the DC Universe entry that she's only capable of benching 30 tons! The fools!" She's not the kind of character where "power limits" matter. She's frikkin' DEATH. She doesn't fit into the superhero paradigm--she's written on a different (not better, just different) literary level, and I can easily see how some superhero hack could misuse her in that respect. I haven't actually read any of the non-Gaiman issues in question, of course, so who knows. <br /><br />Killing Z-Listers is interesting. It's not inherently a bad idea, and can be done well when the character being killed is a) someone that would be difficult to make work in the modern day, b) redundant or somehow detracts from another, more interesting character (like the overabundance of teen sidekicks out there), and/or c) someone whose death could interestingly impact an existing character. When Alan Moore killed off Zatanna's father Zatara, it worked, because it fit all these criteria nicely--he was a fairly boring Mandrake the Magician ripoff, and killing him made Zatanna more independent, as well as complicating her relationship with John Constantine. As long as there's a sense that the writers have actually put some thought into the character and decided he or she would legitimately serve the story better dead, I'm OK with killing them off. Unfortunately, like so many other things, it's become a cheap shock tactic.Pranksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00676528953675160889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-37213235685388446822011-06-29T13:35:47.806-07:002011-06-29T13:35:47.806-07:00To be honest, having Power Girl be a raging femini...To be honest, having Power Girl be a raging feminist...whose costume incorporates an obvious "Titty-Window" makes even less sense...but the nerds must be fed, I suppose...<br /><br /> The mullet and other...unfortunate haircuts were just the products of their times, though. Like how no matter what, the Aquarian and Thundra are doomed to be trapped forever in the 70's.John Feasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11052978152467320307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-45248285983269844682011-06-29T10:27:37.204-07:002011-06-29T10:27:37.204-07:00I do enjoy that Nightwing's redesign is essent...I do enjoy that Nightwing's redesign is essentially "Let's just zip this thing all the way up."Brandon Talbothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13637555730599218164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-79313363433255913422011-06-29T09:40:37.460-07:002011-06-29T09:40:37.460-07:00That Orion costume is even worse than Super Powers...That Orion costume is even worse than Super Powers figure, which seemed to be just some dude with a plastic bucket on his head.<br /><br />I remember that Power Girl costume . . .I also remember they replaced it with something even worse/insane than the turtleneck, too.<br /><br />Kudos on digging into the deeper cuts for this--you could have gone for the low-hanging fruit of Kyle Rayner's first GL suit, Ultimate Warrior Guy Gardner or Electric Superman, but you went above and beyond in seeking out the deadly worst.Kazekagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07499536996058174109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-36492447887036559552011-06-29T09:08:05.848-07:002011-06-29T09:08:05.848-07:00Oh gosh, I wish I had the time. I think mainly I e...Oh gosh, I wish I had the time. I think mainly I enjoyed it because Loeb bothered to give them actual personalities, rather than the purple suited archetypes they had been for nearly 30 years (the "pilot", the "boxer", the "scientist", the "hothead"-GO!) and extrapolated logical story arcs for all of them. Having Challengers Mountain explode and endanger the town stupidly built nearby. Superman bailing their asses out of jail. I didn't like the whole demon bit at the end, that's something writers, especially then, fell back on too many times. I just thought it was a take that actually made them seem "real", rather than the anonymous jumpsuited fighting/pointing/running/shouting guys they had been in the past.<br /><br />Of course, that series divided a lot of people, and I've been known to be wrong before. But that's my take, and the best explanation I can provide in five minutes.<br /><br />Could have taken or left Sale's art, though...Johnny Bacardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07051009739174204952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-72106593010120874192011-06-29T08:55:29.192-07:002011-06-29T08:55:29.192-07:00You must explain the appeal. I asked with a sneer,...You must explain the appeal. I asked with a sneer, but my heart longs for the beauty of truth.<br /><br />Your Humble Editor (who inks with a slice of Canadian Bacon)Calamity Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800364546694770009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1243661303845968536.post-61032350760173275652011-06-29T08:51:21.693-07:002011-06-29T08:51:21.693-07:00I liked that Loeb/Sale Challengers series, and I d...I liked that Loeb/Sale Challengers series, and I don't care who knows it. It wasn't all grim y gritty as they say south of the border.Johnny Bacardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07051009739174204952noreply@blogger.com